the next POTUS

"The American people, an increasing number of elected officials, and more and more military and intelligence officials understand what the President doesn't - that our seemingly indefinite prescence in Iraq, and the lack of a plan to redeploy troops, feeds the insurgency and hurts our national security. We need leadership, and we need a policy on Iraq that includes a flexible timetable for completing our mission there, so that we can focus on our national security priority - defeating the global terrorist networks that threaten the U.S. The President missed a vital opportunity today. Our brave service members, their families, the American people, and the Iraqi's themselves deserve and demand more." (feingold.senate.gov)

My bolding. Russ Feingold voted against this war based on the lack of intelligence he saw and also was the ONLY US Senator to vote against the PATRIOT ACT.

John Murtha was on Hardball tonight and once again displayed the candor and matter of fact style this country needs desperately. He countered every one of Bush's falsehoods with fact, as in we didn't and still don't have enough troops, we are not doing the things we need to do and are engaged in a civil war that is jeopardizing our troops.

Delusioned

I was at my real job (haha) when the president made his 75th speech today about Iraq. Not that understanding this president requires you to actually listen to his prepared speeches. In case you missed it here we go: don't worry we know what we're doing and don't ask any more questions.

That is the gist of the Bush presidency. It truly is a neotheocracy. It's all the worst presidential tendencies wrapped into one; the delusional paranoia of Nixon, the dedication to continued failure of LBJ (plus the large spending devoted to such failure), the politicized PR campaign overkill of the Clinton years (i'm not saying Clinton is in the worst category).

As yours truly has said in this blog space before, this guy doesn't change for nothing. Dead soldiers approaching 3,000? they fought and died for freedom and they will continue to do so until I say so. Our continued practice of torture (waterboarding is torture Wall Street Journal!)? 'We don't torture.'

When Bush ran in 2000 I knew we were in trouble. His compassionate conservatism I knew was for lack of a better word, bullshit. Yet somehow he still beat Gore. Flash forward to last year, where the very conditions we face we were facing then, surely America will realize we are being led by a man who's only claim to fame was his ability to sound tough on a bullhorn? Right? Wrong. America choose imcompetence and fearmongering (If you elect Kerry we will get hit again, i'm looking at you Cheney VP of torture).

Never did I think we would be in this place. Where staged photops are crushed with simple fact. Where we are doing exactly what Al-Qaeda wants us to do. Where the US policy for victory in IRAQ (not against Al-Qaeda as Russ Feingold pointed out today) is declared three years after a premptive war is waged.

By the way Hillary, there is no triangulation to be done in regards to this war. You voted for the authorization to give a man you knew was a baffoon to tools he needed to wage this country's first premptive war. You cannot and must not now say we can't leave. We can and we must: NOW. I'm of the mind of Murtha. Americanlogic will not vote for anyone who voted for this exercise in disaster whether they are democratic, GOP, green, worker's world, communist, socialist etc.

When American troops are deployed back to where they belong on our soil, maybe then America will truly see what Bush has wrought. He will have turned a capitalist secular regime into a terrorist playground and destabilized the Middle East for years to come and in the process placed America in the league of torturers.

God bless the next president, as he will truly need God's divination.

Joe Lieberman

It wasn't suprising to me to read snippets of Lieberman's surrender to Bush in today's WSJ (who by the way condone torture and humiliation of prisoners under our supervision). There was a reason Lieberman only received 7% of the Democratic vote and had to quit last year: he will bore you to tears with his inability to be passionate about any one issue.

Right wing timely quote

"Bush has three years left, but the time is approaching when debate on a new U.S. foreign policy for the post-Bush era must begin. One lesson from this war is already clear: Americans will not long support spilling the blood of their soldier sons in a war for ideals like democracy in the Arab world unless they are convinced national security or U.S. vital interests are imperiled." (from americancause.com, Buchanan's site)

That's it

I simply don't care about Iraq. There, I said it. Americanlogic is bearing his soul in regards to this war because the time is right.

Americanlogic refuses to accept the "safe" route of democrats such as Joe Lieberman and Hillary Clinton, career politicians who offer only handwringing. I am of the mind of Murtha. American troops need to leave Iraq before more die there.

But Americanlogic what about the insurgency and the jihadists? Won't they turn Iraq into a terrorist training ground? No, not unless the Iraqis kill them. We are losing the war against this insurgency because we started off with inadequate troops, incompetent war management and visions of utopia. No realism, just illusion.

What about the troops? Don't we dishonor their service by asking they return home to their wives and children? Nonsense. This question is always asked to quelch any discussion of withdrawal. These men and women have been occupying a foreign country for over three years now engaged in bloody combat with a man-child of a commander in chief at the helm. It's time to think about the future of this country. The future of our democracy. Our children. Our wives. Our husbands. Our infastructure. Our well being as a nation. Can we really accept three more years of this?

Americanlogic refuses to parrot the centrist line of "be patient." The families of these troops have been patient long enough. Time to bring them home so they can receive the inadequate care they are bound to get once they become citizens again. Time to let them waste away in military hospitals while the jobs they once had are outsourced or cut or given to temporary "guest" workers. No, Americanlogic isn't jaded by this war.

If the Iraqi people want democracy they will spill blood, sweat and tears for it. We've done enough. Any democrat who does not speak to this truth should volunteer to fight the insurgency themselves along side Cheney and Rumsfield.

This was not a war thrust upon us. We choose to fight it. Now we can choose to end our role in it.

thirtysomethings

"I asked directly if we could delay this so we could depoliticize it. I said: 'Mr. President, I know this is urgent, but why the rush? Why do we have to do this now?' He looked at Cheney and he looked at me, and there was a half-smile on his face. And he said: 'We just have to do this now.' " (Tom Daschle, courtesy LA times) tip: thinkprogress.org

Now if this conversation truly did take place we are looking at impeachable offenses at worst, callous disregard for reason at best. Meanwhile, the British have a leg up on us:

Leading opposition figures from the Conservative, Liberal-Democratic, Scottish National and Plaid Cymru (Welsh) parties have banded together to back the cross-party motion titled "Conduct of Government policy in relation to the war against Iraq" to demand that the case for an inquiry be debated in the House of Commons. They seem assured of the 200 signatures required to get such a debate -- and then the loyalty of Blair's dismayed and disillusioned Labor members of Parliament will be sorely tested (upi.com)

Bush and Blair both have approval ratings in the 30's. Why Blair attached himself to this war will be the greatest mystery to me. His centrist approach to government won him the soul of American and Britain. Now he's going down with his co-architect.

Brutal, but still funny

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/42972

Yoo, defender of torture

For a disturbing profile of a man who equates torture with sleep apnea go here: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/badapples/interviews_yoo.html

Quote of the Year

"At various times since 9/11 members of the administration have acted as if catching Osama bin Laden, or changing Social Security, or saving Terri Schiavo, mattered more than any possible other cause. Creating an Iraqi military actually matters more than almost anything else. But the people who were intent on the war have lost interest in the only way out." —James Fallows, Atlantic Monthly

The "Shut up about the war" and "Don't worry, they're being trained" approaches are not winning strategies.

Where we are part II

It's hard to keep up. Two camps have set up in regards to this war. Those represented by Murtha advocate withdrawl from Iraq, keeping american forces on the perimeter. Those represented by Cheney and Bush advocate a continued failed course. I'm waiting for this president to address the nation and layout a plan for victory. Then I read this headline on Editor and Publisher's website:

Bush Discusses Murtha and Says Progress in Iraq is 'Amazing'

So much for that idea.

With the holidays approaching, its good to see americans in general have a positive attitute to those who have little. Americanlogic was in the line at his post office today and heard this exchange:

Disheveled woman asking for some money

Woman on cellphone: "you ask me that every time i'm in here. you know the answer. get a job." (not an exact quote mind you)

To summarize, our country is engaged in Iraq. We are torturing people. Our government condones this and wishes it to continue. We have a man-child president who tries to escape press conferences. We have a vice president who is delusional at best. The general attitude towards our fellow man is one of contempt. This is America 2005.

Murthafication

Americanlogic endorses this guy for president:

Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: “I like guys who’ve never been there that criticize us who’ve been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don’t like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done.” (courtesy msnbc.com)

Clinton and Iraq

Most on the right are in a fit over President Clinton's comments yesterday (by the way, the right calls him Bill Clinton, they usually refuse to attach the President prefix). My feeling after reading the story was that Clinton's main beef is with the post occupation. You know, the total disregard to how we would secure the peace as an occupying force. As I have found out, regime change was on the table since 1999 so it cannot be said Clinton would not have eventually removed Hussein from power. He simply thinks we should have been better prepared. My God what blasphemy.

Americanlogic bullets-

-This week's word is "irresponsible," as in the Democrats are irresponsible for any discussion on Iraq, meaning resume your prewar position in the corner.

-You have to hand it to Cheney, he is unapologetic about his role in this government. He stands for secrecy and torture and is proud of it.

-The Woodward revelation only confirms one thing in my mind: he's in bed with this administration. He should not have waited this long to come forward. We are dealing with a national security issue not an office break in.

-Rep Murtha, a democratic hawk, just proposed immediate withdrawl from Iraq. Despite what the generals want, this might be happening real soon.

Some reason in this madness

"The Iraq war should not be debated in the United States on a partisan political platform," the Nebraska senator remarked. This debases our country, trivializes the seriousness of war and cheapens the service and sacrifices our men and women in uniform. War is not a Republican or Democrat issue. The casualties of war are from both parties. The Bush administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years. The Democrats have an obligation to challenge in a serious and responsible manner, offering solutions and alternatives to the Administration's policies." (www.hagel.senate.gov)

That was Chuck Hagel, someone who uses reason and common sense when dealing with matters of great concern to this country. Unfortunately John McCain, doesn't share this view. He views any kind of dissent as a demoralizing factor for our troops. I have a question? Are the troops paying attention to political punditry? No, they are doing their job.

The National Review - Pro torture

None of it is necessary. Torture is already against the law. It is, moreover, the intentional infliction of severe physical or mental pain — which is to say, much of the prisoner abuse that has prompted the current controversy has not been torture at all. Unpleasant? Yes. Sometimes sadistic and inexplicable? Undoubtedly. But not torture. And where it has been either torture or unjustifiable cruelty, it is being investigated, prosecuted, and severely punished. (www.nationalreview.com)

Yes, NRO I would imagine torture as being unpleasant.

Relax Tucker

Last night on Tucker Carlson's show "The Situation," he featured BYU professor Steven Jones who simply said this: "It is quite plausible that explosives were pre-planted in all three (WTC) buildings." and this: "Muslims are (probably) not to blame for bringing down the WTC buildings after all" (courtesy www.desertnews.com)

Of course it was the latter statement that caused Carlson to become increasingly hostile to Jones during the course of the interview. The presumed feeling being that by suggesting a different theory as to how the towers were destroyed somehow removes the effect of 9/11 as a whole on the nation.

Relax Tucker.

way to go MSM

One of the top stories on MSNBC's website:

"A-ROD WINS MVP"

obviously the most pressing issue of our time.

51% voted for this last year

“Although President George W. Bush has called weapons proliferation the country’s most serious threat and al Qaeda has sought nuclear arms for a decade, ‘the most striking thing to us is that the size of the problem still totally dwarfs the policy response,’ said commission chairman Thomas Kean.” (thinkprogress.org)

Translation: you're not getting what you voted for.

where we are

Sorry for the delay in posting. This weekend I spent reflecting on the state of this country. We are having a genuine debate on torture. The word has been uttered by the President of the United States in a denial that we practice it, even though he surely knows that we do. Bloggers have united against this disgraceful period in our history, offering a point by point rebuttal to the apologists on the right.

The right wing of the GOP, who have lost all sense of reason, are defending torture. From the Wall Street Journal to Bill O'Reilly there is a sense that we must do ANYTHING to win the battle against jihadist extremism. Anything folks, even torturing those in our captivity. We are engaging in practices once perfected by the Khmer Rouge, the Nazi Party and Stalinist Russia.

It's taken the courage of two people, John McCain and Captain Ian Fishback to bring this issue to light. Abu Gharib was forgotten. The work of Seymour Hersh was ignored. We are becoming what Saddam was, a menace to the people of Iraq.

James Fallows has an excellent piece in the Atlantic describing the need for an Iraqi army before we can leave this country. How can we leave and expect what we've done to not linger? The dogs we've sicked on prisoners, the torture and humiliation we have inflicted on these people. Sometimes, it is our fault. Sometimes its correct to blame America. We've done this.

President Cheney

More evidence that when it came to this war, Cheney was the puppeteer:

"A former top offical in the Bush administration is suggesting that a White House memo outlining the need for hundreds of thousands of troops for the Iraq invasion was kept from the president. Lawrence Wilkerson, who served as chief of staff to then-secretary of state Colin Powell during President Bush's first term, said in a November 7 speech that the NSC had prepared a pre-war memo recommending that hundreds of thousands of troops and other security personel was needed. 'I don't know if the president saw it.'

(taken from www.forward.com)

O'Reilly/Roberston

Can we somehow surgically remove these two from the political dialog?

A summary: Robertson wishes God would impose his/her wrath on Dover PA. O'Reilly invites terrorists to destroy the Coit Tower in San Francisco.

Maybe if we ignore them they will go away.

hating the president

Some on the rabid left openly hate our current president, entire blogs are dedicated to this. Americanlogic does not hate our president. In fact, if I ever had the opportunity to meet George Bush I probably would like him.

As much as the rabid left wishes, we cannot for the next three years continue to have an ineffective federal government. We cannot continue to point out every annoying detail about George Bush with great zeal. They way he speaks, smirks, smiles, talks, gestures. This is a waste of time. We only have one president and deep down we all want him to suceed for us.

We may or may not survive the presidency of George W. Bush. We are not on the eve of the end of this term, we are early into it. Over half of America does not trust their president, they think he is taking this country in the wrong direction and establishing America as a nation that will do anything, including torture people to defeat terrorism. These things are not us.

Today is Veteran's Day, can we for one day remember we're all in this together. That's the best way to honor those who bled for what stand for.

Poltical Karma

Do you remember that press conference President Bush held a day after his re-election?

In it he proclaimed to have the will of the people at his back. His "political capital" was aching to be spent. Bush had a bold new agenda, tax reform, social security reform, continued failure in Iraq.

What is the president's agenda now? Survival. At the very least, he will leave office one of the most unpopular and polarizing presidents ever. At the very worst, he could be impeached, despite Dana Millbank's declaration on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" that both parties "have learned their lesson" on impeachment. Translation: no one has the guts to even suggest it.

This is a bed that George Bush made himself. By refusing to take cues from history, he left himself vulnerable. He has the worst qualities we could have in a president: he doesn't listen to experts, he thinks he's right all the time and he places loyalty above all.

As I've said before, those who think he will suddenly change and fire Rove, get serious about exit strategy in Iraq and become a moderate haven't been paying attention for the past four and half years. It's a pipe dream.

Then again, Americanlogic could always be proved wrong.

Malkin Watch

Malkin is irrelevant, Exhibit A:

"Deluded ex-CBS News producer Mary Mapes is still in denial about Rathergate"

RATHERGATE! When did this happen? Better yet, who cares?

A victory for Centrism

Instead of ruminating on the political ramifications of last night, I'll let the Moose do the talking here: http://www.bullmooseblog.com/

President Warner?

Pro torture camp gets bigger

Not suprisingly, Neil Cavuto is pro torture. See evidence here: www.thinkprogress.org

Alito and you

Read this if you want a clearer understanding of Alito and abortion, Americanlogic approved:

http://www.reason.com/cy/cy110805.shtml

the pillars are gone

The Bush presidency has relied on two pillars: Iraq and 9/11.

The events of 9/11 rallied the world to the side of America in the fight against global terror. Bush became the symbol of defiance against the jihadist enemy. It was at that moment he squandered a momentous opportunity to rally the country for a national cause, reevaluating the nation's goals when it came to energy, economic policy and national service. Instead, he divided the country in half and declared the Bush doctrine of preemptive war all while cutting taxes and presiding over exploding deficit spending, making him the biggest spender in history. Due to fear, the country went along for the ride and against all reason give him another chance last year.

The second pillar is this war. Again, it must be stressed this was not a war of necessity. Preemptive war never is. This was not a humanitarian war, Abu-Gharib proved that. The insurgency there is a product of America. We are now stuck in the same position we were in the 1960's, we can't cut and run and we can't continue to lose. The public knows this and is not happy.

We will have to come to the realization that until we can get new leadership in our government nothing will change in Iraq. The failed policies will continue. No one will be held accountable. This president will wave goodbye as he takes off on the White House lawn in 2009 never fully grasping the damage he has wrought on this nation. The very fact that torture entered the american dialog will be in the history books in the same paragraph as George W. Bush.

Unless we see a radical change of the man, we will never move forward.

Memo to GOP

My god will it ever end?

Americanlogic is convinced the right wingers still think Bill Clinton is president.

As the case for premptive war with Iraq unravels, the editorial board at the National Review and Weekly Standard are still operating like it was 1998. Now mind you, when Clinton did order airstrikes against Saddam in 1998 the loony right was crying foul. How sweet the irony is.

Talking points 101 for the right:

on Iraq and WMD: Bill Clinton thought they were there.

on Terrorism: Bill Clinton ignored the threat.

on the recession of 2001: Clinton's doing.

I don't think there has been a politician of either party who has attracted such scrutiny from an opposition party and its minions. If anyone knows of any other examples, please let Americanlogic know.

America v Bush/Cheney

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9957511/

seems like that 29-30% squares with what's left of the Bush base. You know, the Hugh Hewitt's, the Bill Kristol's, Limbaugh's, O'Reilly's, Malkin's.

Makes Americanlogic wonder if these people even want America to win in Iraq? Or do they just want Democrats to lose.

He doesn't care

Watching and listening to this man, it seems to me we have a few possible interpretations in front of us. Either the president simply does not know what is being done in his name in his own military or he is lying through his teeth to the American people and the world. I guess there is also a third possibility: that he is simply unable to acknowledge the enormity of what he has done to the honor of the United States, the success of the war and the safety of American servicemembers. And so he has gone into clinical denial. Or he is so ashamed he cannot bear to face the truth of what he has done. None of these options are, shall we say, encouraging. (andrewsullivan.com)

There is a fifth interpretation: Imperial, theocrat presidents don't answer to anyone, even the electorate.

Finally

"There's an enemy that lurks and plots and plans and wants to hurt America again," Bush said. "So you bet we will aggressively pursue them but we will do so under the law."
He declared, "We do not torture." (Bush)

Did you ever think an american president would be fielding a question regarding US policy on torture?

The above statement is classic Bush, framing Al-Qaeda as this nightstalking boogeyman. Mr President, this may have worked in November 2001. However, it's not working anymore. Take a look at those polls you despise.

Fire Rove now

Bush's brain has a severe migraine that won't go away. That migraine is in the form of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. Prolonged exposure to such a migraine will result in implosion. Americanlogic suggests the president prescribe a permanent leave of abscense in order to relieve Rove of the mounting pressure in his skull.

Americanlogic film review

Better late than never.

Americanlogic had a chance to take his son to see "Tim Burton's The Corpse Bride" last week. Having been huge fans of "The Nightmare Before Christmas," I know I was very excited.

I had every reason to be. This movie is an absolute joy to watch. The movie drips with dark humour but carries itself in an almost dignified way. The songs are wonderful as well, with Danny Elfmann once again proving he is the master at composition and scoring.

Americanlogic approved.

Malkin Watch

Nevermind Tom Delay and Scotter Libby, we should be talking about this:

DID DIDDY BREAK THE LAW?

see for yourself at www.michellemalkin.com

he's really got a problem with polls huh

"I understand there's a preoccupation by some with polls," Bush said. "The way you earn credibility with the American people is to have a clear agenda that everybody can understand, an agenda that relates to their lives, and get the job done." (Bush today)

What pray tell, is that agenda Mr. President? Deficit reduction on the back of the poor? More corporate welfare? A foreign policy based on incompetence? Americanlogic is still waiting for this question from the MSM:

"What is your position on the McCain amendment?"

The fight against torture continues

Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita told reporters yesterday that the administration worries that "the kind of rigidity that comes with these kinds of amendments could restrict the president's flexibility in the global war on terror, and anything that restricts our ability to engage in this highly agile adversary is not desirable.'' (courtesy Bloomberg.com)

McCain is not giving up:

He vowed today that his measure would be "on every vehicle that goes through this body'' until it's enacted into law. "It's not going away,'' he said on the Senate floor. "This issue is incredibly harmful to the United States of America and our image throughout the world.''

McCain/Carter 2008?

Tricky Dick

Andrew Sullivan (andrewsullivan.com) has started what he calls "Cheney Bunker Watch." This is in response to the VP's seeming inability or refusal to discuss his role in the leak investigation.

Oh yeah, he also is trying to kill the McCain amendment. The second in command is pro torture.

denial

Americanlogic finds it most interesting to peruse through the right wing blogs and find hardly any mention of the CIA leak scandal.

Michelle Malkin, fierce partisan, has not even mentioned it once on her blog, www.michellemalkin.com

For readers unfamiliar with Malkin, she's the one who alleged that John Kerry shot himself in the leg in order to get his medals, which of course led to his desire to run for president which of course he would use to get the "veteran" vote. Makes sense right?

She also was in favor of the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII, in fact she wrote a whole book about it! Gee, I wonder what her position is on the McCain amendment that is dying on the vine? Is Malkin pro-torture like the nine senators that voted against McCain's amendment?

So, starting today Americanlogic introduces the Malkin Watch. Stay tuned.

The Bush era

"I never even considered the fact that our country would be debating whether or not we could continue to torture prisoners around the world in secret prisons. This is something that's inconceivable."

(former president Jimmy Carter on "Hardball" last night)

Revolting

In today's Washington Post, further evidence of the pro-business class policies of the current GOP are evident. Realizing after five years that deficits do matter, the House decides they have to start cutting. Their first target? Yep, you guessed it: the poor. Food stamps, Medicare, school lunch programs are all being targeted. Why end corporate welfare? Marshall Whittman aka the Moose:

The prime reason that the Moose is not an elephant is that the GOP is theologically devoted to comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted. The blessed sacrament of the high church of the Republican Party is the permanent elimination of the estate tax. (www.bullmooseblog.com)

For some months now, yours truly has done some political soul searching. Should I shy away from progressive thinking? Embrace libertarianism? Say no to government?

Well, it doesn't take a liberal or a libertarian to see the reality of today's GOP. After all is said and done, this country's soul may never recover.

for those who are interested

http://www.straighttalkamerica.com/

looks like he is gearing up.

Poor Scott

As readers may know, Americanlogic has no pity for Scott McCllelan, or Baghdad Scott. By the way, last night on Tucker Carlson's show, Rachel Maddow of Air America used the words Baghdad Scott in her description of the press secretary's woes. Rachel, you should have email me first. Moving on.

This has become a pattern:

"But whether or not it was a crime, does the President feel that Karl Rove acted appropriately in this matter, given what he knows about his involvement?"

"See, you're asking that context--asking that question in the context of an ongoing investigation and an ongoing legal proceeding. And as I indicated to you all on Friday, our Counsel's Office (Harriet Miers) has directed us not to discuss any issues related to that, whether they're factual circumstances or legal issues relating to the investigation."

Americanlogic stands by his earlier declaration that Scott McClellan, like most of the president's employees, stinks at what he does. Whether it's on Iraq (everything's fine), or the leak (see above) McClellan doesn't serve America well. The MSM is noticing it, the print media is noticing it, I'm noticing it.

Democrats

For the american left's take on the Reid/Frist showdown, I present to you the Nation's John Nichols:

www.thenation.com/doc/20051114/nichols

Hey look over there!

Subject has affectively been changed to: bird flu.

Listen, americanlogic takes avian bird flu very seriously, especially since its infiltrated our borders and caused mass panic and hysteria.

This has been the most competent this president has been in four years. A SCOTUS nominee then a major speech on preparedness. All it took was an indictment.

Change

Americanlogic likes change. How about you Mr. President?

The Dean nightmare

Below is the transcript from "Hardball with Chris Matthews" last night.

MATTHEWS: The Democrats, your party, is a pro-choice party?
DEAN: No. My party respects everybody's views, but my party firmly believes that the government should stay out of people's personal lives.
MATTHEWS: But you are a pro-choice party? Are you not? You sound like you're against ever being pro-life. Are you pro-choice?
DEAN: I'm not against people for being pro-life. I actually was the first chairman who met for a for a long time with pro-life Democrats.
MATTHEWS: This is the complicated thing for people. The people believe the Republican Party, because of its record, supports the pro-life position. Does your party support the pro-choice position?
DEAN: The position we support is a woman has the right to make -- and a family has the right to make up their own mind about their health care without government interference.
MATTHEWS: That's pro-choice.
DEAN: A woman and a family have a right to make up their own minds about their health care without government interference. That's our position.
MATTHEWS: Why do you hesitate from the phrase pro-choice?
DEAN: Because I think it's often misused. If you're pro-choice, it implies you're not pro-life. That's not true. There are a lot of pro-life Democrats. We respect them, but we believe the government should...
MATTHEWS: Do you believe in abortion rights?
DEAN: I believe that the government should stay out of the personal lives of families and women. They should stay out of our lives. That's what I believe.
MATTHEWS: I find it interesting that you have hesitated to say what the party has always stood for, which is a pro-choice position.
DEAN: The party believes the government does not belong in personal...
MATTHEWS: I'm learning things here about the hesitancy I didn't know about before. We'll be right back with Howard Dean.
DEAN: You know what you're learning...
MATTHEWS: Now, you're getting hesitant on the war and hesitant on abortion rights. It's very hard to get clarity from your party.